Opposing the war in Gaza, from inside Israel

In this episode, Yehuda Shul, the founder of the NGO Breaking the Silence, and Michael Sfard, an Israeli human rights lawyer, discuss their perspectives as anti-war activists in Israel during the current Gaza conflict. The conversation begins with Shul reflecting on the emotional turmoil following the October 7 attacks, emphasizing that widespread anger in Israel has blinded society to the suffering inflicted upon Palestinians in Gaza. Both activists express concern about the Israeli government's actions and the increasing silencing of dissenting voices.

Shul recalls his time in the IDF during the second Intifada, detailing how military operations in the West Bank shaped his views on the occupation. He describes how his experiences lead to a profound realization about the dehumanization of Palestinians, and how this affected his own sense of identity and morality. Sfard shares his own soldiering experience in which he eventually refused to serve in Hebron, advocating against the occupation instead.

The discussion highlights the ongoing impact of the October 7 attacks on Israeli society and the lack of awareness regarding the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Despite being aware of rising death tolls, many in Israel remain focused on their own trauma and are largely uninformed about the suffering of Palestinians. Both activists emphasize the changes within the IDF, noting an increase in radical views and a shift in the composition of soldiers, which contribute to a more aggressive military approach.

Finally, they call for international pressure on Israel, suggesting concrete actions that allies like the UK can take to influence Israeli conduct in Gaza. The activists reiterate that the primary victims are the Palestinian people, while Israeli society also faces moral injuries due to the conflict, necessitating an end to the violence and occupation to heal from these wounds.